Thanos vs. Darkseid: Marvel surpassed DC with a ripped-off clone

Over more than eight decades as the two biggest comic book publishers in the world, Marvel and DC have established many traditions — perhaps none more apparent and recurrent than their absolute delight in ripping each other off.

Pop culture has a constant question: Who would win? This is why we are dedicating an entire week of debates to those who have shaped TV, films, games and comics for good and bad. Polygon’s Week of Who Would Win? is upon us.

The controversy has been a source of many famous heroes. Are the Fantastic Four really Marvel’s first family or are they just a retread of Jack Kirby’s previous DC work, the Challengers of the Unknown? Which of the X-Men, or the Doom Patrol was the first to be born in the heads of their creators? And in the current era where comic books sit at the top of the pop culture pile fueled by the massive success of the MCU, Nolan Batman movies, and the box office juggernaut that is sequential storytelling, there’s one notorious knock-off pairing that shaped the Hollywood landscape as we know it: Thanos vs. Darkseid.

It all began — like so many monumental comic book moments — in the mind of Jack “King” Kirby.

A once in a Fourth World faraway

It is not an exaggeration to say Jack Kirby’s vision and art were a powerhouse in comics. He scored his first hit in 1941 with Captain America at Timely Comics — now better known as Marvel — and while there went on to co-create such famous heroes as the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Black Panther, the Avengers, and more. By the late ’60s he was itching for more creative freedom, so he set his sights on Marvel’s most famous competition, making the leap over to DC Comics to create a modern mythology known as the Fourth World.

Though it might be hard to believe, now that he’s one of the most powerful villains in comic book history, Darkseid made his debut in 1970 in Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen #134, an unassuming and utterly wild cosmic take on Superman’s bestie. The big bad was created to be the overarching villain of Kirby’s Fourth World, essentially a crossover between all the books that Kirby was doing at DC. Sadly, Kirby wouldn’t see that vision fulfilled, as the Fourth World never became successful enough to see long term support from the powers that be at DC. The impact of Fourth World and New Gods had ripples throughout the industry. Marvel Comics soon followed suit.

Image by Jack Kirby/DC Comics

Jim Starlin, an emerging cartoonist was just starting his career. Starlin made waves at the publisher pushing the bounds of humor and absurdity that the comics allowed. After reading Kirby’s Fourth World and becoming a huge fan, Starlin was inspired to create a master villain of his own. Starlin created his antagonist from a New Gods member. This is comic book common knowledge. But it might surprise you that his initial chosen inspiration wasn’t Darkseid. In fact, Starlin wanted to reinterpret — read that as rip off — Metron, the super smart explorer and turncoat who would often switch between the warring sides of the Fourth World. Roy Thomas, Marvel editor, had different ideas. “Beef him up! If you’re going to steal one of the New Gods, at least rip off Darkseid, the really good one!” Thomas told Starlin. So, Thanos emerged in late 1972 from the pages Iron Man #55.

Ironically, Starlin’s knock-off would fulfill his crossover destiny before Darkseid. Thanos, the Mad Titan pursued the Cosmic Cube during a tag team battle that spread across the globe. AvengersSeries and Marvel Two-In-One, ultimately ending in Thanos’ death in 1977.

Jack Kirby went on his own exploration of discovery during that time, which included the death and creation of Thanos. In 1975, he returned to Marvel as an artist and writer. Notable runs include: Captain America Black PantherAlso, he created the Eternals, Devil DinosaurPlease see the following: Machine Man, but his time there once again didn’t last. Burning out quickly on Marvel’s company culture — where editors would often pack the letters pages in the backs of his books with negative fan feedback — his final work with Marvel was the company’s first graphic novel, a Silver Surfer collaboration with Stan Lee released 1978. He took a break in Big Two comics and delved into animation in 1979. He would return to DC through that medium and his love for Darkseid.

As the reputation of both the Fourth World and Kirby’s career grew in the 1980s, DC Comics invited the legendary artist to be a part of its Kenner toyline, the Super Powers Collection. The DC Comics wanted Darkseid to be the main villain of the action figures. This was reflected in the Super Powers Collection. Super FriendsA cartoon series as well as a comic book published under the Super Powers label. Because the comics were created by the King, their artistic genius was crucial. The marketing campaign led to the commercialization of Apokolips’ ruler. In 1988, kids could take home Darkseid mugs from Burger King. However, it was only a taste of what Thanos would achieve decades later in broad commercial success.

Warner Bros. Pictures

Starlin, like Kirby before him left Marvel to join DC in 1980s. He enjoyed great success with the Batman titles during his time at DC. Starlin, however, was again drawn to the universe and put his unique spin on Darkseid as well as the Fourth World. Cosmic Odyssey.Starlin, who was a Marvel employee, would make a comeback in less than a full year, revive Thanos and center Starlin in his own cosmic journey in the popular and beloved miniseries known for Being Marvel. The Infinity Gauntlet. Although there were no fast food toys to be had, Thanos and his quest for power laid the foundation for Marvel’s unending glut of crossover comics in the 1990s. The popular comic would transform the cinema’s face for good decades to come.

Marvel Studios makes an inevitable decision

Marvel Studios was established in 1996 to try and save the struggling publisher from declaring bankruptcy. Packaging movies and licensing them Blade, X-Men, Marvel Studios gained an important foothold in the movie industry by selling several more films to outside studios. In 2003, David Maisel (a producer) pitched Marvel Studios to make its own films. That was the spark that lit the fire of the MCU, but those previous licensing deals meant the company didn’t have access to its most famous heroes, including Daredevil, Spider-Man, and the Fantastic Four. The studio had to think again about who it could make an A-list star in the expanding cinematic universe.

In 2022, it’s clear Marvel Studios did that to an unbelievable degree of success, recasting lower level comic book heroes like Tony Stark, the Avengers, and Captain America as the biggest superheroes on Earth. The company was left with few villains due to licensing agreements. Galactus and Doctor Doom were not in the licensing deals. Magneto, Galactus and other Spider-Man villains could be found elsewhere. But while that may have shaped the choice, ultimately choosing Thanos as the MCU’s big bad makes a lot of sense on its own. If you’re going to make a series of comic book event movies, why wouldn’t you use Marvel’s most successful comic book event as a template?

Thanos’ smiling face would popularize the now expected mid-credits and post-credits scenes of MCU films. The Mad Titan, originally played by Damien Poiter and later by Feige and others to be played in the MCU films by Josh Brolin. From there, he became a cosmic puppet master controlling the Avengers’ fates and foes until the inevitable snap came in 2018’s Avengers: Infinity War. Darkseid wasn’t even visible in the film. While his existence was implied in 2016’s Batman v Superman – Dawn of Justice, during a sepia dream sequence where eagle-eyed comic book fans could spot the Omega symbol that signifies his home planet of Apokolips, he wouldn’t join the live-action DC fray until 2021 in Zack Snyder’s Justice League. He was the youngest version of Uxis the intergalactic god. And even then it likely seemed to many who weren’t familiar with the history that this strange omnipotent alien was nothing more than a Thanos knock-off. The irony!

Thanos reigns!

Jim Starlin, George Pérez/Marvel Comics

Over the forty-year span since their debut, Darkseid and Thanos took big shots at one another, Hollywood, and the comics industry. But in an MCU-saturated world, there’s only one winner: Thanos. Not only is he still a force to be reckoned with on comic book shelves, but he’s also arguably the most famous on-screen villain of the 21st century. Darkseid is a comic book legend who has been able to make his mark with several animated versions of the DC Animated Universe, and the most recent. Harley Quinn show, he doesn’t have the same immediate recognition. Most members of your family probably know who Thanos is, but those same family members likely wouldn’t pronounce Darkseid’s name right the first time. There’s also the Disney merchandising machine, which cannot be underestimated in this battle. There are many comics-accurate Thanos variants that you can find at any Target. Darkseid is a different story. His merchandising boom took place over ten years ago.

It’s important to note that DC hasn’t been able to debut some of the most dynamic and poetic ideas that the Fourth World had to offer on the big screen because they had already inspired one of the biggest film franchises of all time. Star Wars borrows heavily from Kirby’s Fourth World legends. The Force. Well, in the Fourth World there’s an energy that connects all living things called the Source. Darth Vader and Darkseid are not only similar aesthetically, but they’re both evil overlords with tragic backstories and estranged sons. Heck, even Darkseid’s name became Star Wars canon in the evil Dark Side. Lucas is well-known comic fan. Here are his inspirations. This means DC would be seen as a derivative if it had been given the opportunity to explore the Fourth World.

Comics and pop-culture history shows us that Thanos vs. Darkseid isn’t a one off. Due to the nature of two niche publishers competing for dominance in the same industry, publishers, authors, creators, fans, and editors are constantly in conversation. But in the case of Thanos and Darkseid, there was one voice which was loud enough to be heard throughout the cosmos — and box office history — and it belongs to the lovelorn purple alien known as the Mad Titan.