Apple’s Invasion wouldn’t exist without Star Wars and X-Men

Simon Kinberg grew up in what he calls the “golden age of science fiction,” when Star Wars, Terminator, AlienThen, Blade Runner weren’t cross-media IP, but banger movies you got to watch on big screens. For Kinberg, growing up in the Los Angeles neighborhood of Westwood Village in the late 1970s and ’80s put him in skateboarding distance of a movie theater paying Return of the JediOn constant rotation. The hordes of hungry people waited in front of him to be able to watch again and again. He was surrounded by his people.

“Maybe the equivalent is a new season of Game of ThronesA new season is upon us. Stranger Things, but even then you’re not having to wait with strangers out in the heat or people who have camped out to see these. And so there was a real magic to science fiction for so many of us who lived lives that are normal or mundane, that idea of entering into a hole of the universe and escaping our world.”

Kinberg began reading H.G. Wells, Ray Bradbury and Isaac Asimov, and found even more depth to a genre which would define his career as a writer for people like those who had lined up for day one of Return of the Jedi. Kinberg, who graduated from college in early 2000, began writing scripts for Steven Spielberg, Jerry Bruckheimer and Doug Liman. Mr. & Mrs. SmithLater, the director turned to more straight-forward sci-fi material with Jumper). It was his ability to rewire sci-fi clichés that made him a genre master. It’s no surprise that Fox eventually handed him the X-Men and Lucasfilm came calling with Star Wars.

Twenty years later, science fiction is not just a genre for Kinberg, it’s a career. The second season of Kinberg’s series Invasion Polygon, now available on Apple TV Plus and Polygon, caught up with Hollywood’s multi-hyphenate star to discuss how he has turned the magic of his youth into fuel for the movies and TV shows he produces.

[Ed. note: This interview was edited and condensed for clarity.]

Polygon has always been a big part of your work. So right off the bat, do you prefer “big geek,” “big nerd,” “big dork”…

Simon Kinberg I’ve been called all those things through childhood and actually into deep adulthood.

“All of the above” — I relate. What was the first project you worked on where the assignment was “go world-build”?

Well, I didn’t build this world, but I grew up reading comic books and I had an opportunity really early on in my career to work in the X-Men franchise. It was a major part of my life. It was the first project that I ever worked on. [X-Men: The Last Stand]Matthew Vaughn had been the director when I first started. Matthew Vaughn was a radical departure from Bryan Singer. He had directed the previous two films. Matthew himself is a world builder — or maybe more than a world builder, a tone builder. He was looking for a tone that would be very different from the two previous films. We were still in scripting phase even during pre-production because Matthew had been on board for so long. [Ed. note: Vaughn later left the project over creative differences and was replaced by Brett Ratner.] And so it felt like, even though we weren’t creating an entirely new universe, because Bryan had obviously done an amazing job of building the foundation with the first two films, and all of those decades’ worth of incredible comics, we were creating a new tone within that world and new rules. You probably saw the tone of that film. X-Men : First class.It was like a sci-fi sandbox.

I am guessing “I’m the Juggernaut, bitch” was not part of that tonal shift.

It was actually a remake of the Ratner’s line.

Photo: 20th Century Studios/Everett Collection

As you became more involved, the X-Men series only began to be more science-fiction-driven. Is the studio still on board?

This was the gateway Days of Future Past because even though there isn’t high science fiction, like apocalypse or aliens, time travel is as big a science fiction trope. It sort of opened up what we could do because even though it wasn’t technically the multiverse thing that, ultimately, I think in some ways spawned it, it was outside the bounds of linear storytelling on Earth. The other dimension was the reason. There wasn’t a lot of pushback from the studio. Although paying all those actors, I don’t think they were wild about that, but it was a successful film and one I’m very proud of.

You can also find out more about ApocalypseWe entered into a more science-fiction tone. Bryan, who had directed so many films, was now directing this one. It was an entirely new experience for him. He talked about the ability to make a pure, real science fiction film. It’s not science fiction but space opera.

It’s interesting because around that same time, while I was working in the X-Men universe, I started working in the Star Wars universe.

Image: Disney Channel/Everett Collection

You didn’t wind up writing a Star Wars movie, but it seems like you were heavily involved with shaping this new era — what was your actual role?

Lawrence Kasdan was hired very early, even before Kathy Kennedy joined George Lucas to create the new Lucasfilms and Star Wars films. [screenwriter of Empire Strikes Back]Michael Arndt [Toy Story 3, The Hunger Games: Catching Fire]It was like a small writers’ room. Skywalker Ranch is where we spent two weeks talking about the possible new films. So, initially I believe the request was to come and share ideas with other people and do a brainstorming session. Michael, Larry and I then discussed writing different Star Wars movies. Michael wrote J.J.’s first Star Wars movie, then Larry Kasdan rewrote it. Larry Kasdan was the one who wrote Han Solo, while I planned to do a completely different movie.

What was going to be written?

I thought about writing the Boba-Fatt movie.

It would have made sense to you if the original Boba Fett pitch had been a way of steering Star Wars towards hard sci-fi.

I mean, it’s all pretty sci-fi, but I think “hard” is the right word. Tonally similar Logan. On the edge of R-rated, though I don’t think you’d have a Star Wars movie that could be R-rated.

Over time I believe my role evolved into a “friend of the court”. It ranged from being an advisor on movies to giving thoughts, taking notes and sometimes even writing pages of scripts. Star Wars RebelsThe show was something I really enjoyed. What was exciting about Rebels was that we were getting to do something that those movies I just mentioned didn’t entirely do, which is create a brand-new set of characters.

Look at them!

Now they’ve come to actual life.

Apple TV Plus

Over the years you’ve really veered from comic book-y sci-fi to the more grounded work you’re doing on Invasion. You know I produced Elysium, and there’s also this Logan’s Run remake that people have been trying to make forever — is that still happening?

It’s my hope! I think there’s enough specificity to Logan’s RunThe concept of age clock is quite different.

But yeah, I’ve worked on a lot of different kinds of science fiction, and a lot of it has been tonally… You have something really grounded, like The Martian. When that film came out, we actually had to say that it wasn’t based on true events. Obviously not; we have not sent human beings to Mars…

This is something that everyone should be aware of.

Exactly, yeah, that’s not something we’d keep covered up! But it was so realistic that it’s really a testament to what Ridley [Scott]Matt [Damon]Everyone was able achieve. And Logan, which was super, super grounded and dramatic to something like you say it’s much more science fiction, world creation, like what Neill Blomkamp did with Elysium. And I’m working now on the Battlestar Galactica movie. We were talking to directors and I think we’ll be able to announce a director soon.

I’ll say InvasionIt gave me a chance, in some way, to connect a few of the different elements. It is grounded on one hand, in that it is focused on characters and emotions in the same way as something like Logan is. Then, [it’s]By definition, science fiction is filled with elements from another world and aliens. That, for me, was the fun of sort of bringing this very sci-fi construct that we’ve seen a million times. Alien invasion movies and shows have been around for a while, but I found it exciting to bring it to life and make it relatable, emotional, grounded, and human. I’ve always loved The War of the Worlds, the book, and I loved what Steven Spielberg did with his movie, but I felt like those are always told from one point of view, and it’s a very singularly British or American point of view, British with the book [and] American with the movie, and I just loved the idea of, if we’re going to tell a story about the world, to actually open it up and be able to tell a truly global story.

You have another Apple Series in the works, and it sounds as if it might have some science-fiction elements. Sugar. This is a great way to get you thinking in a different direction.

Sugar Fernando Meirelles helmed a number of episodes. The show is similar to a film noir detective series with Colin Farrell. It’s really special and very different than Invasion. It’s a singular point of view. It’s a guy in Los Angeles dealing with very detective-y things. As far as sci-fi, I don’t know… There’s a lot of strange things that happen. I’ll leave it at that.

Please continue being an idiot.

It’s not going to change, trust me.