‘Who Would Win in a fight’ debates have a dark side

While it may seem impossible to believe that blogs existed in an era before Ubisoft NFTs or Chipotle TikToks were available, this is what was possible. And in those innocent, bygone days (specifically, 2011) a blazing flame war erupted in the comments of DC Comics’ The Source, forcing DC employees to shut down the blog’s comments section. As far as I’m aware, it was never turned it back on in the history of The Source.

Pop culture has a constant question: Who would win? We’ll be spending an entire week debating the issues that have shaped movies, comics, television, and video games for both good and bad. Polygon’s Week on Who Would Win Week is here.

Preview pages to ignite the flames of Superman#709: The comments section descended in predictable internet-style arguments. Name-calling and swearing were commonplaces. Is there a topic that could have caused this bucket of sand to be so controversial? Why, a tale as old as superhero time: “Qui would win in a race, Superman or the Flash?”

Who would win … Batman or Superman? The Avengers, or the X-Men. Sonic? Mario or the X-Men? Goku or Saitama? These questions can be stimulating for some people’s creative and collaborative brains. ExplOring the possible answers have led to enduring, valuable stories in every medium — and fun popcorn experiences, too. It’s also simply a social pleasure, exploring the stuff you love from new angles, sharing those angles, and gaining a deeper appreciation for it whether people agree or disagree.

But for others, “who would win?” incites flashbacks to disrupted forums, ruined afternoons, and strained friendships. For a third, however, the everlasting question is triggering something darker and more antisocial.

That’s because “Who would win?” games are an indulgence, and like any vice, it has a dark side.

Qualitative and quantitative

Image: J. Michael Straczynski and Chris Roberson. Eddy Barrows. Allan Goldman/DC Comics.

Boil any “who would win?” question down to its essence and you will find one drop of truth left in the pot. The speculation is born from a desire to take the qualitative — elements within popular works of fiction (like characters or factions) or shared perceptions of real things (like “the Xbox” or “Star Trek”) — and transform it into the quantitative. The objective is to transform the subjective into one objective calculation that can be used for building a collective fantasy.

The curators of these fictions, their creators, occasionally offer official answers to “who would win?” questions. When characters such as the X-Men jumped off the pages to Marvel trading cards, superhero powers rose in prominence. Multiverse-bridging, competitive-brawler games have been around for decades. Super Smash Bros. have explicitly enticed players with the fantasy of finding out “Who would win, Samus or Link?” (But the game developers don’t actually provide an answer, because the most enjoyable fighting games are ones where each fighter’s moveset allows for any preconceived notion to be upended by the right combo.)

But having to obey ironclad rules about how much the Hulk can lift can be a hindrance to someone who’s actually writing Hulk comics. To a fan, the answer to “who would win?” can be a statement of “fact,” but to a creator — of a comic like Superman vs. Muhammad AliOr a film like Godzilla vs. MothraOr a game similar Kingdom Hearts (in which Donald Duck can battle Cloud Strife) — the answer has to be a story, a set up, a collection of characters. The pressures of storytelling and the expectations of an audience are much more important than fandom-accepted power levels or any created power levels.

Some fans might argue that Superman could run faster than Flash. But in a creator’s eye, the possibility that Superman could be faster makes for conflict and uncertainty — or maybe it’s just fun to write a Flash crossover with a superhero who can actually keep up with him.

“Who would win?” speculation isn’t for creators, but fans, the Star Wars nerds who compare force powers and saber colors, the My Hero AcademiaX-Men or Justice League geeks drafting their perfect superhero team or WWE diehards sharing the dream matches. It’s all literally fun and games — until fans start to make their answer part of their personal identity. That’s when the defeat of their favorite becomes a referendum on their person. When enthusiasm devolves into tribalism, tempers flare, blood pressures rise, and placid references to Goku’s power levels become flashpoints. Brands make money.

Tribalism is bad, but it’s Great for capitalism

If an audience’s primary way of engaging with their fandom is the collection of their products, for reasons like sentimental value (Funko Pops), social collateral (limited edition statues), or simply to keep up one’s personal expertise (comics), that’s goodFor a Brand. But if that enthusiastic community feels compelled to compete with another in items owned, books devoured, movies viewed, box offices broken, Rotten Tomato score rankings — that’s great for a Brand.

History suggests it’s terrible for anyone who has to Interact with that fandom; like the folks running DC’s Source Blog). As a DC Comics fan who occasionally reviews superhero movies, I can’t tell you how tired I am of hearing that Marvel pays critics to give the MCU good reviews and the DCEU bad.

What business wouldn’t want a totally external and unrestricted driver to their brand’s engagement? It’s a fanbase that, if the Brand is in any way perceived as losing, feels as though they, personally, are losing, too.

Fans can also engage with entertainment objects through consumption or collection. But not even curative, creative, or transformative fandoms are immune to the siren call of “who would win?” After all, what is “Team Edward vs. Team Jacob” or “Peeta vs. Gale” if not “Who would win at being the best boyfriend?” The versus scenario still makes a highly sought-after official branded tee shirt, so that no one at the midnight premiere will have any confusion about where Please enter your email addressTake a stand.

Learn from the experience this pitch perfect parody/slash historical reenactment videoRainey Ovalle. Those two gentlemen are having a “who would win?” discussion that, while they ultimately agree that Midoriya of My Hero AcademiaIn a fight with Saitama Of, I would lose. One Punch Man, Midoriya has a long way to go before he’s fully in control of all the powers of his unique and legendary Quirk. Maybe, someday, he’ll get there. This is the central thematic line of the book. My Hero AcademiaIn the first place! This is social bonding. It’s critical engagement! When the Goku stan enters, this is precisely what happens.

“Who would win?” must be enjoyed responsibly. You shouldn’t take it too seriously. However, it should not be considered canon. It should not be a canon. We must also watch out for how it relates to the capitalist forces surrounding us. However, it is not impossible. shouldEnjoy it.

Just please don’t get so mad about the Flash that I have to shut down comments on this post.