Our Flag Means Death’s creator reveals his big message: ‘Love is work!’

After the finale to season 1, the show has been running for a year and half. Our Flag Means Death left awkward pirate captains Stede Bonnet (Rhys Darby) and Edward “Blackbeard” Teach (Thor RagnarokYou can also find out more about the following: Thor: Love and Thunder director Taika Waititi) emotionally staggered and physically separated, the show’s vocal, expressive fandom seems to have steadily grown, getting louder, more organized, and more excited for the second season with every passing month.

That’s a lot for series creator and showrunner David Jenkins to contend with. There was no guarantee that the show — which starts out as an ensemble workplace comedy based in real history, then turns into a giddy queer fantasy romance — would find its footing, let alone earn the kind of engaged fan base that most shows dream of.

The first season’s success made one particularly visible impact on season 2: The show shifted production from a Los Angeles sound stage to a much more ambitious location shoot in New Zealand, which let the crew bring some particularly ambitious fantasy elements to the show. Just ahead of the season 2 premiere, Polygon sat down to catch up with Jenkins on the fans’ impact on his season 2 planning, what he wants for the series’ future, and why he sees Stede and Blackbeard as a pair of awkward teenagers just starting to mature past the fairytale phase of their story.

The conversation below has been edited to ensure clarity.

Photo: Nicola Dove/Max

Polygon: What surprised me most about the Season 2 episodes that critics got to see is their rapid pace. You’ve said in the past that you’re thinking of this as a three-season show, and I was expecting this to be the season where Stede and Blackbeard have separate adventures, and work their way back toward each other by the end of the season — the grimace on your face tells me that was never a consideration!

David Jenkins: Everybody would have been pissed. That’s the thing about being a fan of your own creative work — we’re creating the show I’d want to watch. Finding a device to keep them apart — that would have just felt like a device. I think the point of this first season is to show that they are both learning what it means to love. In the last episode, Stede’s ex-wife tells him what love is, and then he’s like [perky Stede Bonnet impression] “Oh! Then I’m going back!” And then Blackbeard is like [Blackbeard impression, grumbling sulky noises]. In the last episode, he’s dealing with the fact that he even made himself vulnerable.

The second season to me is like, you have the kiss, you decide you’re gonna run away together, you decide not to do it, ultimately. So watching these two characters navigate each other — at the end of the first season, they’re 14-year-olds, emotionally. In this season, it’s more like they’re in their late 20s. They’re like, [Blackbeard impression] Should we live together, my man? What is it like to live together? What would it be like to live there?

I find it interesting to see how those two characters handle that in the setting. It’s about the work of a relationship — what does it mean to have a mature relationship? Are we willing to do it? Can we? Are we equipped to handle it? That’s an interesting story to follow the fairytale story of “We met each other and we kissed.”

Max

You said in our last conversation that you expected the writing process for season 2 to change many of your original story ideas. What happened?

This was an excellent process. New Zealand presented an extra challenge. They’re wonderful. New Zealanders work shorter days, and that’s the way it should be. They’ll shoot an 11-hour day. If we were to produce this in LA (or anywhere else), then we could have 16-hour workdays and all the time. And after shooting this season, I think that’s too much time — shooting shouldn’t go that long! Looking at these scripts while we were shooting, we were saying “Oh yeah, this needs to be tighter! We need to pull this back a little bit.”

In a show that has such a large ensemble, making sure you’re doing everybody justice is the biggest challenge, after the writers’ room has wrapped and you’re going through everything. The show’s biggest challenge is to make sure that everyone gets a story arc and we see our favourite Muppets. That’s the challenge of the show — to tell a big, sprawling story in little 30-minute increments, with two fewer episodes than last season. It’s important to choose your shots.

Given that Stede and Blackbeard were the big breakout characters of last season, and you’re introducing even more key characters in season 2, how did you manage that balance, and figure out what everyone’s individual story needed?

It’s pretty organic, because as we’re going through and tracking everybody’s journey for the season, we’re watching the thing that holds us together — what stage of Stede and Blackbeard’s relationship are we in? The overarching question is: Will these two guys learn to be in a committed relationship? Two people who run and who disrupt their relationships — what does it look like when they try to commit?

While we’re telling that arc, there are smaller arcs. Black Pete and Lucius kind of mirror Stede and Blackbeard’s relationship in some ways, and in some ways, they’re a counterpoint to it. And then the individual crew relationships — we’re going through, just trying to say, What am I doing? Where do we get bored?

Writing it was exciting to us, because we’re all fans of the show as we’re writing it. We’re just saying it. OK, we haven’t seen this character in a while. What happened to them? Let’s check in on them. How can we dramatize what they’re going through on the inside? Which part of this external story can we use to dramatize the things they’re going through emotionally?

Photo: Nicola Dove/Max

When you were writing season 1, you didn’t have a huge, vocal fandom for the show. How has the awareness of this audience changed season 2?

The wind was blowing in our faces, making us feel different. It affected everyone who wrote it and those involved, including designers and actors. Now it’s like People know the name of this show! Second season has a more explicit romance story. It’s like the first season. Are these two guys in love? You’re watching that slowly build. This season, it’s more like, Families exist. These characters are close.

Watching how the fandom processed the first season was fun and energizing for all of us, but at the same time, you have to forget them when you go into the writers’ room. And as I say, we’re fans too. So we’re writing things for the characters that we like. The term fanfic — it’s just fic! It’s important to be passionate about your passion. It should sound like fanfic when you write about what interests you. It just means you’re into it, and you like it, and you want to see the characters in different circumstances. The fact that they do it for free because they enjoy doing so is the most wonderful feeling. It’s an honour.

You still think you’d like to have three seasons total? Has the writing of this season changed your mind?

Three is a good number. Threes in general are good. We’re looking at three stages of a relationship — coming together, realizing you’re in love, then figuring out what you have to do to keep that love, and move past it. And then I think there is another story to tell, where it’s like, What are some ways to maintain that love? When you have a relationship, what’s your responsibility to each other?

There are times when it’s not always fun. You’re like Shit, I don’t know, you stopped growing and I’m still growing. I stopped growing, and you’re still growing. These are the things I like to see in a fantasy story about love, because I think a lot of times, we don’t. Love is often portrayed in an idealized way. However, love requires work. And I’d like to see that in my fantasy a little bit. I think that’s a helpful thing to see, so we don’t all think, Oh, I’m gonna fall in love, and that will be it. I’ll meet my one. It’s like, “No, motherfucker, love is work! And it’s hard! And then you do the work, and hopefully, it works out!”

Polygon’s season-long coverage of David Jenkins will include more details about the conversation. Our Flag Means DeathSeason 2 spoilers. Max airs new episodes on Thursdays.