Did Adonis deserve more than he gets in Creed III?

Michael B. Jordan’s directorial debut, Creed III, is already one of 2023’s biggest success stories, a top 10 box-office contender that’s stirred up interest in the long-running Rocky franchise and prompted a lot of thoughtful, eager theorizing about Jordan’s directorial style and his possible future behind the camera. Many of us here at Polygon loved the film, which featured nerdy, fun anime references as well as its emotionally charged, in-depth approach to Adonis Creed’s current role. Creed III goes further into Adonis’ backstory and history than the first two entries in the franchise, and while it naturally frames his conflict around a climactic boxing match, it continues to be clear that his internal battles are just as significant as the public ones.

But does Creed III Are you giving these fights enough space? The movie pointedly doesn’t go past the surface in letting him resolve some of his big issues, which leaves the ring open for sequels, along with Jordan’s possible anime spinoff of the franchise. That’s potentially a good thing for Jordan and for the future of this series, but is it a good thing for Creed III’s story? We are inspired by the staff’s throwdowns. Titanic’s alternate ending, Spider in The Way of Water: AvatarYou can listen to the entire song here The Muppet Christmas CarolWe had two writers enter the ring for the duel.

The Polygon Court has reopened.

[Ed. note: Spoilers ahead for Creed III, including end spoilers.]

Opening statements: Catharsis and the case for opening statements

Photo: Eli Ade/Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Pictures

Tasha: So to make this clear, this isn’t a debate about who got more points in Creed III’s climactic fight or whatever. I’m not a boxing expert, and as Jordan has said himself, that match is more an anime hero/villain throwdown than a by-the-book WBA match. It’s a post-fight discussion.Creed III conversation where I complained that Adonis got robbed of some much-needed plot payoff in this movie, and you said, “Yes, and that’s awesome.” We’re here to fight about whether this movie needs the closure it doesn’t get, and whether it’s cool to just keep leaving Adonis swinging in the wind, waiting for the next installment of his story.

Austen: It’s true, I love this movie’s lack of closure, and I think it’s sort of the point. Many movies tie their stories up in bows and leave us with no questions. Creed III’s third act is entirely about punching someone you have a problem with until one of you falls down, and then not having a problem with them after the punching. That’s about as much closure as you could ever get on anything, so I’m perfectly happy if that’s all the closure the movie wants to offer.

Presentation of evidence: Does Creed III’s ending work?

Photo: Eli Ade/Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Pictures

Tasha, The Case for Closure: Here’s my biggest beef with Creed III: Screenwriters Keenan Coogler and Zach Baylin kill off Adonis’ mom, Mary Anne (Phylicia Rashad), in what feels to me like a pretty stilted rehash of the death of Rocky’s longtime trainer Mickey (Burgess Meredith) in Rocky III. I strongly suspect that in early drafts, that plot beat was meant to be the death of Adonis’ trainer and mentor, Rocky, and that Sylvester Stallone full-on balked. It is clear that Stallone chose to leave. Creed IIIover clashes avec Irwin Winkler (franchise rights owner), and given how Creed II sets Rocky up as dying of cancer, I’d put cash money down on a bet that Winkler wanted to kill him off, and Stallone didn’t want to close that door.

So instead, Adonis’ low point is his mom dying — which comes at a point in the movie shortly after she reveals that she deliberately withheld years’ worth of letters from his childhood best friend Damian “Dame” Anderson. That deeply harmed both men, but apart from Adonis’ flash of fury when he first finds out, he never really gets to talk to her about it or come to terms with it. In a movie that’s so deeply and empathetically about his need for emotional unburdening, that strikes me as a problem. But it sounds like you’re all for it.

Austen: The case against I actually agree with you that this feels like a plotline originally designed for Rocky’s death. But I also think that the changes made around it being Adonis’ mom are a lot more interesting than Rocky dying ever could have been.

Donnie’s emotional arc in this movie is mostly about his inability to open up and talk about the things that are hurting him — especially without resorting to violence, whether that’s in words or actions. The story with his mom perfectly puts this in perspective. He tries to avoid any conversation with her, until he gets mad at his mom for keeping the letters from Dame. Then suddenly she’s gone. On its face, it’s a straightforward plot device for his character’s turn: In the wake of his mom’s death, Donnie feels the weight of the conversations he’s not having, and it convinces him to open up a bit to Bianca.

But the movie isn’t showy about this idea in a way that would feel cloying and untrue to Adonis’ stoicism. He doesn’t get a cathartic scene where he explains his last fight with his mom to Bianca. He doesn’t get a monologue about the finiteness of life or the importance of emotional openness. Bianca is his only contact. It molds everything Donnie does; it does so quietly.

Tasha, The Case for Closure: Wow, I feel like I just took a first-round punch that’s close to a KO, but I committed to this fight, and I have to soldier on. I’ll cue up “Eye of the Tiger” to keep me focused here. This is my favorite. Idea of Adonis feeling pushed to open up to Bianca because he didn’t have a chance to open up to his mom, but I just don’t think the movie makes that dynamic clear at all, either in terms of the timeline or his response. And I don’t think it’s any clearer that talking to Bianca helps Adonis in the way it’s meant to.

This movie pays some lip service to the idea that Adonis needs to talk about his feelings — again, emulating Rocky III, and Rocky and Adrian’s similar face-off on the beach about how he needs to admit he’s scared to face Clubber Lang again, or his unspoken fears will keep holding him back. He clearly finds a place of catharsis in the movie that allows him to speak his mind, and lets go of all his secrets. This catharsis seems much less effective. He finally tells Bianca his backstory, and it’s an important moment for him — but given how the flashbacks have been doled out throughout the movie, he’s just telling us things we already know, and that don’t seem to give him any relief or release.

Austen: The case against His connection with his mother is quite direct, I’d argue! It’s right after her funeral that he and Bianca first talk about Leon, where she shares her experiences with her hearing loss, and what it meant for her career and her life. It’s also this act of opening up that helps Donnie admit that he thinks the only way to stop Dame is to fight him, which, to the movie’s credit, Bianca greets with an appropriate mix of concern, warmth, and trust.

This is the moment that, to me, lets the movie tip its hand to the fact that the lack of closure we’re often confronted with in life is what Creed IIIThis is the essence of what life is about. Bianca’s story about her hearing loss doesn’t end triumphantly with her in comfortable acceptance, or with her getting to do one last show. She realized she was suffering permanent damage, so she just stopped performing live, and she’s still hurting from what making the right decision cost her. She’s even struggling watching other artists perform her songs. This isn’t closure. She’s just learning to live, and to deal with the way life has gone. She’s working through the pain to find joy where she can.

In the same way, she never asks Adonis to sort himself out, or to come to her once he’s figured out his Leon problems, or his Dame problems. She is looking for a partner with whom she can openly share her problems and receive his advice. And that’s what he gives her.

Photo: Eli Ade/Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Pictures

Tasha, The Case for Closure: Perhaps then, my problem is this: Creed III He is too focused on Adonis’ needs. Dame needs to fight him — and I think on a pure emotional level, Dame needs be beaten, so he has absolute proof that Adonis is the better fighter, and didn’t unjustly steal Dame’s rightful place. Bianca needs to hear Adonis’ story, and force him to confide in her. Mary Anne must confess to Adonis before her death. Amara’s daughter needs him to come to terms with his anger at fighting so he understands how to reply to her. Where is the solution? Creed III What is Adonis’s need? All of this must be done without Adonis suffering for others.

Austen: The case against I think Donnie as an avatar for the pain and catharsis of everyone around him is a really fair point, and to some extent, a pretty strong criticism of who the character is, and what his story often slips into — looking straight at you, Creed II. I also think Donnie’s place in the story is the most strained part of the movie’s approach to life as a series of complicated interconnected events that are difficult to narrativize.

Adonis, in the movie is the victim of events rather than the aggressor or the changer. In some ways, that’s the point: He’s looking for a way to move his life forward and to age gracefully into retirement, but without the structure of the next fight to prepare for, it’s something he struggles with.

Tasha, The Case for Closure: All of which is true, but it’s what leaves me frustrated at all the things this particular movie denies him. The film shows him winning a fight, having his time in the ring at the end with his family, which feels like some kind of closure for his boxing career. But this whole film is telling us that his boxing career isn’t the point, that it’s an afterthought compared to his relationships to people! And he ends this movie with a few small, incremental steps forward — he’s finally able to (briefly, in a halting and limited way) talk to Dame honestly, and to open up to his wife, and play with his daughter. They are all great! But he’s still left with so much unresolved that the film feels like it was never really about him at all.

Austen: The case against In that way, I actually think it’s a fascinating type of narrative that men in their 30s rarely get in movies, and never in blockbusters. It’s quiet and a little aimless. The ending is about a man who’s reconciled a relationship from his past that he blocked out, a relationship from his present that he was actively blocking out, and a relationship with his daughter that he was trying to block from certain parts of himself.

Now, none of these are really “needs,” and the most cynical version of me might see the recent announcement of a few Creed spinoffs going into development and think that all this movie had to do was put Donnie in the right place to spread his IP wings. Its messy story, refusal to be resolved easily, and lack of closure are precisely what make me believe it is worth the effort.

Tasha, The Case for Closure: One last thing: Because Sylvester Stallone opted out of this movie, we don’t get any kind of closure between Rocky and Adonis. I admit I’m neutral on that one — this is a movie largely about Black masculinity, competition, and communication, and I’m perfectly fine with not having the Italian Stallion butt in with his perspective. But it sounds like you consider Rocky’s absence here even more of a positive than I do?

Austen: The case against I’m not sure I have any feelings one way or another about Rocky not showing up in Creed III. I just think the intimacy and immediacy of family makes Mary Anne the right choice for Adonis’ mid-movie turn toward emotional openness, especially since she’s a family member he didn’t have much of a relationship with early in his life, which makies that openness even more important, and regrettably not present. But I’m also not sure any of that precludes Rocky from showing up at all. Maybe my most honest opinion is that I don’t need much more from Rocky after he sits out the in-ring celebration in Creed II. In a lot of ways, that feels like an acceptable split from the series for him, especially when he and Adonis have both found their own separate ways to accept Apollo’s death and legacy.

Clôturing arguments: Justice for Adonis

Photo: Eli Ade/Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Pictures

Tasha, The Case for Closure: Just give Adonis something that’s all his own, that’s all I ask. In this film, the man suffers so much trying to make others happy. It feels more like relief at the fact that everyone might leave him be for a while than triumph over the ending of an incredible career. Just give the guy a night off from everyone’s demands, huh?

Austen: The case against Creed III’s whole point is that closure isn’t possible, and that open and honest communication is still worth striving for anyway. In the end, Adonis doesn’t get any answers, and his story doesn’t get a neat bow wrapped around it. Instead, he opens himself up to the messy, painful knots that people tie out of life’s loose ends and uncertainties. Without boxing, Adonis has to deal with the rest of his life, where things are complicated, because judges don’t keep scores and conflicts rarely end in knockouts. He can’t have a night off, because that’s all he’s taken up until now.